Vote for why you think it jumped
Death (James Sr.)
Florida (Esther Rolle) leaves the cast, then returns
Keith
Jimmy Walker says "dyn-o-mite"
Never Jumped
Shark Bytes
Guest,
From most things I have read, the main reason that John Amos was upset about the scripts was that he wanted Good Times to be more of a socially poignant show instead of a light comedy. Yes, he was upset that Jimmie Walker was portrayed as a buffoon and thought it was demeaning to black television characters. I posted this a ways back in this webpage. He did not quit though, he was never offered a contract for the third season, in effect becoming fired.
You are also correct that Esther Rolle felt much the same way as Amos. She had hoped that after Amos was fired that the character of JJ would become more of a father figure to Thelma and Michael but when he became even more of a clown than ever, she had had enough and left the show. She obviously wasn't too upset to return though, because she did.
So, in retrospect, it seems that although they were disenchanted with the way the characters were portrayed, they also were angry that the show never morphed into a more socially-conscious type of show, instead of remaining a comedy.
In a sense, that would make both our points valid.
Peace.
From most things I have read, the main reason that John Amos was upset about the scripts was that he wanted Good Times to be more of a socially poignant show instead of a light comedy. Yes, he was upset that Jimmie Walker was portrayed as a buffoon and thought it was demeaning to black television characters. I posted this a ways back in this webpage. He did not quit though, he was never offered a contract for the third season, in effect becoming fired.
You are also correct that Esther Rolle felt much the same way as Amos. She had hoped that after Amos was fired that the character of JJ would become more of a father figure to Thelma and Michael but when he became even more of a clown than ever, she had had enough and left the show. She obviously wasn't too upset to return though, because she did.
So, in retrospect, it seems that although they were disenchanted with the way the characters were portrayed, they also were angry that the show never morphed into a more socially-conscious type of show, instead of remaining a comedy.
In a sense, that would make both our points valid.
Peace.
"...until I find out that the creators of Good Times were holding a gun to the actors' heads and forcing them to talk this way, I'm not buying into the whole 'stereotype' or 'exploitation' thing. I doubt the cast were too upset when they cashed their fat paychecks each week."
John Amos (James) expressed his dissatisfaction with the writing of Good Times in a print interview; he was subsequently fired.
Esther Rolle quit because of the same reason - both Amos and Rolle had taken the parts because they thought TV would finally portray a black family in a POSITIVE way. Instead, Good Times re-created all the negative stereotypes that, by the '70s, really should have been consigned to the past.
The two stars of Good Times were very vocal about their dissatisfaction with the show and its poor writing and stereotyping.
John Amos (James) expressed his dissatisfaction with the writing of Good Times in a print interview; he was subsequently fired.
Esther Rolle quit because of the same reason - both Amos and Rolle had taken the parts because they thought TV would finally portray a black family in a POSITIVE way. Instead, Good Times re-created all the negative stereotypes that, by the '70s, really should have been consigned to the past.
The two stars of Good Times were very vocal about their dissatisfaction with the show and its poor writing and stereotyping.
To the guest below,
I understand what you are trying to say regarding the way Wilona talked and the misuse of grammar on Good Times, but this certainly was not, and IS not, confined to shows written and produced by white men.
I once saw an interview with one of the consultants for The Cosby Show.. He said that many black people wrote to the show complaining that the Huxtables were 'too white' in the way they talked and acted. They actually wanted the cast members to talk the way you are demeaning white writers for making the Evans' talk! I guess there's just no pleasing everyone. Ever hear the way Queen Latifa talks and the phrases she uses? It makes Wilona's "Honey" and "sucker" seem downright 'white' at times. Have you ever actually heard the way some people who live in the projects talk? How is it so different than the way the Evans family and Wilona talk? What you call a stereotype, many people would call realism. Besides, until I find out that the creators of Good Times were holding a gun to the actors' heads and forcing them to talk this way, I'm not buying into the whole 'stereotype' or 'exploitation' thing. I doubt the cast were too upset when they cashed their fat paychecks each week.
I don't know if the white writers and producers of Good Times thought they were performing some kind of public service, as you say, but it certainly did NOT set back the cause of civil rights back 30 years!! What nonsense!
Peace.
I understand what you are trying to say regarding the way Wilona talked and the misuse of grammar on Good Times, but this certainly was not, and IS not, confined to shows written and produced by white men.
I once saw an interview with one of the consultants for The Cosby Show.. He said that many black people wrote to the show complaining that the Huxtables were 'too white' in the way they talked and acted. They actually wanted the cast members to talk the way you are demeaning white writers for making the Evans' talk! I guess there's just no pleasing everyone. Ever hear the way Queen Latifa talks and the phrases she uses? It makes Wilona's "Honey" and "sucker" seem downright 'white' at times. Have you ever actually heard the way some people who live in the projects talk? How is it so different than the way the Evans family and Wilona talk? What you call a stereotype, many people would call realism. Besides, until I find out that the creators of Good Times were holding a gun to the actors' heads and forcing them to talk this way, I'm not buying into the whole 'stereotype' or 'exploitation' thing. I doubt the cast were too upset when they cashed their fat paychecks each week.
I don't know if the white writers and producers of Good Times thought they were performing some kind of public service, as you say, but it certainly did NOT set back the cause of civil rights back 30 years!! What nonsense!
Peace.
This show was unintentionally funny. A "gritty," "realistic" show about a black family growing up in the projects of Chicago - written and produced by a bunch of old white Jewish guys with names like Shulman and Dorfman.
I'm sure it gave those guys a warm glow to write such "with it" dialogue. Could an episode go by without somebody mentioning collard greens and fatback? Could an episode go by without somebody mentioning winos, welfare, or unemployment checks? Why did Willona call everybody either "honey," "baby," or "sucker"? Why did nobody in the Evans family ever use the verbs "is" or "are"? ie: "we goin' to the store."
No doubt they thought they were performing some kind of public service by putting this parade of stereotypical dysfunction on America's TV screens every week for years. Instead, they set the civil rights movement back 30 years.
I'm sure it gave those guys a warm glow to write such "with it" dialogue. Could an episode go by without somebody mentioning collard greens and fatback? Could an episode go by without somebody mentioning winos, welfare, or unemployment checks? Why did Willona call everybody either "honey," "baby," or "sucker"? Why did nobody in the Evans family ever use the verbs "is" or "are"? ie: "we goin' to the store."
No doubt they thought they were performing some kind of public service by putting this parade of stereotypical dysfunction on America's TV screens every week for years. Instead, they set the civil rights movement back 30 years.
I liked the show much better without the parents and with Willona at the helm. I think Ja'net Dubois was the true star of that show. And Bern Nadette Stanis was gorgeous. A shame she never got the widespread acknowledgement she deserved for being one of the most beautiful women on TV in the 1970s.
But, my preference for the later years probably has more to do with the fact that Ralph Carter got extremely, blisteringly hot in those final seasons after he got all grown up and sexy. WOOF!!
But, my preference for the later years probably has more to do with the fact that Ralph Carter got extremely, blisteringly hot in those final seasons after he got all grown up and sexy. WOOF!!
If Good times was racist then I was blissfully ignorant of it. I loved that show and it gave me (a white person) an appreciation for people of different heritage. I was only 10(?) when the show started airing. I loved the whole family, but especially JJ - at the beginning. He did get stonewalled into the silly character role. I remember my friends and I laughing at ourselves imitating The Kid, Dynomite!!
I loved Good Times! I thought it was hilarious, but at the same time it delt with serious issues. I don't think the family was racist in the least. I thought the jokes they cracked on whites were probably based on their reality living at the time (60's). I thought John Amos played a strong Black Father role. When he died, the show went slapstick and JJ went from funny,to silly,to ridiculous, to... will some white cop just put a bullet in his behind and end his character!
I still don't understand one thing though. If they wanted to get out of the ghetto so bad, why everytime Themla got a scholorship to go off to college they tried to keep her at home right in the ghetto? That sista was trying to break free!
Buga was a complete nightmare...and I never looked at a iron the same way after cute little Penny got scorched...still a groundbreaking show for its' day
I still don't understand one thing though. If they wanted to get out of the ghetto so bad, why everytime Themla got a scholorship to go off to college they tried to keep her at home right in the ghetto? That sista was trying to break free!
Buga was a complete nightmare...and I never looked at a iron the same way after cute little Penny got scorched...still a groundbreaking show for its' day
I never saw the show in its orginal run but in syndication like most people my age. I agree that it JTS when James died then it went downhill when Florida left. However,'Good Times' was a groundbreaking show, one that paved the way for the 'Cosgy Show' and 'Family Matters' and even 'Everybody Hates Chris'. No it wasn't the perfect show. Yes the writers royally screwed it up by killing off James and essentially breaking up the family and giving JJ way too much exposure, but, it still deserves respect for being the first show on television to show normal black people who loved their families and aspired and worked hard to achieve their dreams. I wish we still had shows like that today.
Thanks to Rob for pointing out that John Amos is still (happily) alive and well. I apologize to Mr. Amos and everyone on here for posting that misinformation.
Interesting fact: during Good Times, he was, in reality, only eight years older than Jimmie Walker (his son) and nineteen years younger than Esther Rolle (his wife). Explains the lack of family chemistry.
Interesting fact: during Good Times, he was, in reality, only eight years older than Jimmie Walker (his son) and nineteen years younger than Esther Rolle (his wife). Explains the lack of family chemistry.
Some posters say that James hated white people. I don't remember him taking about white people that much; it was Michael who was complaining about "The Man" and the system keeping black folks down. As for James' anger, I guess I'd be angry too if everytime I had an opportunity it fell through or my silly wife wanted me to turn it down. I guess some people want black people to always be happy and joking around like Al Roker. Yes, sometimes this show was unrealistic, overdramatic (Esther Rolle's damn, damn, damn being a good example), and full of insults, but most of the time it was funny as hell. Unfortunately, the ending was one of the worst I've ever seen with everything being perfect at the same time. Thelma practically fainted while everyone is sharing how they are leaving the ghetto,because of course any woman that fainted on television in the seventies and eighties was pregnant. Also, she had to insist that Florida live with her and Keith so Florida could keep meddling in their lives and nagging them. How realistic is that? I always skip that episode when I watch the CDs. Furthermore, there was something creepy about Penny, but Janet Jackson was a fantastic actress then, and she still is now. Her face was so pretty then, that when I see that tiny nose and huge cheekbones sticking out I want to scream, "Damn, damn, damn!"
Jason,
Just for the record, everything I have ever read on the subject says that John Amos did NOT leave the show of his own will. Oh, he may have been ready to do so soon, but that's not how things transpired, from what I have been able to ascertain. On John Amos' entry in Wikipedia, it says he was 'fired' and on the Good Times entry in Wikipedia, it says he was 'dismissed' from the show.
There are other websites that say similar things. Plus, I heard even as early as a couple years after the show left the air that Amos was not offered a new contract for the upcoming season, thus effectively becoming 'fired'.
It's not a big deal to me, but it's just as easy to get these things right. I'm not sure why the bio channel said that Amos willingly left the show.
In one interview that I have just read, Amos said that the show's producers 'killed my character off'. It doesn't sound as if Amos, himself, is the source of the misinformation about him leaving the show of his own initiative, so not sure where that one came from.
Not everything you read, see or hear is true, including the things I have read. But I have read several sources which state he was basically fired, so that is what I choose to believe. We can all form our own conclusions, I suppose.
Peace.
Just for the record, everything I have ever read on the subject says that John Amos did NOT leave the show of his own will. Oh, he may have been ready to do so soon, but that's not how things transpired, from what I have been able to ascertain. On John Amos' entry in Wikipedia, it says he was 'fired' and on the Good Times entry in Wikipedia, it says he was 'dismissed' from the show.
There are other websites that say similar things. Plus, I heard even as early as a couple years after the show left the air that Amos was not offered a new contract for the upcoming season, thus effectively becoming 'fired'.
It's not a big deal to me, but it's just as easy to get these things right. I'm not sure why the bio channel said that Amos willingly left the show.
In one interview that I have just read, Amos said that the show's producers 'killed my character off'. It doesn't sound as if Amos, himself, is the source of the misinformation about him leaving the show of his own initiative, so not sure where that one came from.
Not everything you read, see or hear is true, including the things I have read. But I have read several sources which state he was basically fired, so that is what I choose to believe. We can all form our own conclusions, I suppose.
Peace.
Just so you all know, John Amos was not "forced" off the show. According to the biography channel, he was tired of doing the same lame jokes on a sitcom because he was a classically trained actor who preferred doing stage plays, so he left the show on his own will. IMO, the show jumped the shark when JJ first said "dyn-o-mite" I never did understand what was supposed to be so freakin hillarious about that line, but it sure never made me laugh.
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